And Then There Was... Syria

[Tessera]

And Then There Was... Syria


Get ready for the next war in the Middle East, kiddies.

The USA needs to flex their military-industrial muscles again.

[Cylnar]

All hail profit!

[Cat]

[Knightshade282]

So glad I don't watch the news it's always war murder chaos etc. rinse repeat.

[dexter19]

thats one of the reason why i don't like the USA

[Drazgar]

It's getting closer.

[Tessera]

thats one of the reason why i don't like the USA

Well a part of the problem is that the rest of the free world, which includes Italy, seems to have appointed the USA to be the world police. Every time a problem occurs somewhere, the general world attitude is "Let the Americans fix it." So while it may be our guys who are doing the actual shooting, YOUR guys are the ones who keep giving us the green light to do so. As well as a fair amount of financial and logistics support.

[dexter19]

thats one of the reason why i don't like the USA

Well a part of the problem is that the rest of the free world, which includes Italy, seems to have appointed the USA to be the world police. Every time a problem occurs somewhere, the general world attitude is "Let the Americans fix it." So while it may be our guys who are doing the actual shooting, YOUR guys are the ones who keep giving us the green light to do so. As well as a fair amount of financial and logistics support.

yeah USA for now have one of the most powerfull army in the world so its true, but 1 i dont like it and 2 the italians are quite forced to do it, because for the money the leader of our govern sell easily the ass of the entire country for make money, http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/54368/Senate-passes-motion-on-buying-controversial-F-35-fighters.html these aircraft are now obsolete, but the Italian government had to spend 12 billion to buy them even if you do not need, fuck, full days of protest for anything, because we Italians like to take it in the ass for money, welcome to Italy where if you're rich become richer and if you are poor you get exploited by the richest

[Tessera]

Capitalism is bad. And it doesn't work.

The situation in Italy, and Greece, and Ireland, and so forth is exactly the same as it is in every capitalist country.

So, blindly hating the USA makes no sense... not when your own people are exactly the same as ours.

Capitalism promotes greed and inequity. Every country which employs a capitalist system suffers from those two evils.
Every single one of them. Greed and inequity are what make the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

And greed inevitably leads to a lust for more power. And that is what creates and sustains war.

So like I said: capitalism is bad. I'd estimate that 90% of the most serious problems in the world today are the direct
or indirect consequences of capitalism. As for the remaining 10% of the problems, I'll chalk them up to overpopulation.

[Tessera]

Here is what I said today, in remarks that I made to my fellow MoveOn.org members.

The question was whether or not MoveOn should support the use of military force in Syria, or oppose it...


"Assad has been torturing and murdering people for many years in Syria. So what exactly are we concerned about? The killing? The atrocities? Or merely the MANNER in which those people were killed? It seems to me that it makes no difference whether it was a gunshot or a gas bomb that caused their deaths. So if we have not jumped into battle up until this point, then I see no reason for us to play "world police" in the Middle East again now."


I am therefore opposed to any U.S. intervention in Syria. I could give a rat's ass about those people and what they're doing to each other. Not because I am a hateful bastard, but because IT IS NOT MY COUNTRY and I do not feel a whole lot of sympathy for Muslims in general.

And who gives a shit if he was using gas bombs to murder people..? What are we trying to say... that a gas bomb is somehow worse than a bunker buster or a machine gun..?

Not to the dead, it isn't.

[dexter19]

Here is what I said today, in remarks that I made to my fellow MoveOn.org members.

The question was whether or not MoveOn should support the use of military force in Syria, or oppose it...


"Assad has been torturing and murdering people for many years in Syria. So what exactly are we concerned about? The killing? The atrocities? Or merely the MANNER in which those people were killed? It seems to me that it makes no difference whether it was a gunshot or a gas bomb that caused their deaths. So if we have not jumped into battle up until this point, then I see no reason for us to play "world police" in the Middle East again now."


I am therefore opposed to any U.S. intervention in Syria. I could give a rat's ass about those people and what they're doing to each other. Not because I am a hateful bastard, but because IT IS NOT MY COUNTRY and I do not feel a whole lot of sympathy for Muslims in general.

And who gives a shit if he was using gas bombs to murder people..? What are we trying to say... that a gas bomb is somehow worse than a bunker buster or a machine gun..?

Not to the dead, it isn't.

In my opinion you are almost totally right about U.S intervention, and yeah the dead doesn't suffer anymore, but i think that type of death is horrible and the amount of kids killed by that thing is incredible, and even if i hate that country the kid had no fault,

[Cat]

And who gives a shit if he was using gas bombs to murder people..? What are we trying to say... that a gas bomb is somehow worse than a bunker buster or a machine gun..?

Yep.

[Tessera]

I'm not saying that it isn't horrible. And I'm not saying that I'm not affected by it.

What I'm saying is that this asshole and his slimy regime have been murdering innocent people for YEARS. And nobody else lifted a finger to stop him. But now, just because he switched to using gas bombs instead of machine guns, we suddenly want to go charging in there and start dropping bombs on Damascus..?

I don't like hypocrisy. If killing is bad, then it's ALWAYS bad. It doesn't matter to me what method was used to murder people... in the end, they're just as dead. Whether it was from being tortured to death, or shot to death, or gassed to death isn't the issue, so far as I am concerned. Dead is dead.

So I ask again: where was the intervention five years ago, when all of this horrible crap got started..? Why didn't we care enough to intervene back then..? And why do we suddenly care enough to intervene now..? Because he used gas..? Is that it..? So we care more about HOW he kills people than the actual deaths themselves..? Are we saying that it's okay to commit mass murder and torture civilians for five years, just so long as you don't use gas..? What the fuck..?!

I hope everyone can see my point. If we didn't go in before, then we shouldn't go in now. And if we do decide to go in now, then we should admit to the rest of the world that we were negligent and irresponsible assholes not to have acted sooner.

But don't try to sell this bullshit to me on the basis of "But he used gas bombs this time." I don't care if he used gas bombs. Hell, I don't care if he used nukes. Killing is killing -- and if we didn't care enough about it before, then I see no reason to start caring about it now.

...

Ya know... 20 or so years ago, in Rwanda, the Hutus and the Tutsis were hacking each other to death with machetes. Men, women, children. A very horrible way to die. Over a million people were gruesomely butchered in that conflict. Where was the U.S. intervention then..? Oh that's right, I forgot: we didn't intervene because (1) the biggest export of Rwanda is bananas, which aren't particularly valuable and (2) they were only using machetes, instead of high-tech weaponry and (3) nobody cares what a bunch of nigger savages do to each other, anyway.

Like I said: I hate hypocrisy. The way we seem to be cherry-picking our military conflicts is infuriating to me. It seems that all you need is to live on top of an oil field and BAM... we'll show up eventually. Fucking disgusting.

[Cat]

And yet people are falling for it even though this whole thing is Iraq all over again.

[Ratcatcher]

Personally, I'm of a mind to let them.
Imagine if we, the "civilized", stopped interveining everywhere and let them to their own devices, they'd probably kill themselves off to the point of no return.
Good riddance.

[Tessera]

And yet people are falling for it even though this whole thing is Iraq all over again.

I don't think people are falling for it as much as you might think. Right now, most Americans are opposed to us getting involved in Syria.

And what if we -do- get involved..? What exactly will we accomplish..? Let's say that we help the rebels overthrow Assad and establish a new government. Is it going to be some warm, fuzzy Western-style democracy that they embrace..? No... it's going to be yet another oppressive Islamic theocracy, just like what happened a couple of years ago in Egypt. And this cycle of Islamic insanity will begin all over again.

So fuck 'em... I could care less what those baboons do to each other. As JFK once said, in regard to Viet Nam: "In the final analysis, it's their war."

[beetle]

We're about to get more involved in the Middle East again, huh? This seems appropriate:

"This is the war that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started fighting it not knowing what it was and they'll continue fighting it forever just because this is......."

[shadowchylde]

This isn't about "the children killed with horrible gas", its about money and oil, period.  There are children killed and raped and maimed all over the world in conflicts that have been ongoing for years.  As Tess said - being murdered in a conflict like that is horrible and violent no matter how you die.   This manipulative play on Americans about the horrors being committed under some regime only gets trotted out when the US needs public support for open military action.  No matter how much they keep saying in Washington this isn't "war", it's war. 

It is also a nice distraction from the whole invasion of privacy fiasco.