U.S. ELECTIONS DISCUSSION THREAD

[Cylnar]

Yahoo at least has called the election for Obama with 274 electoral votes (and counting):

Barack Obama wins election for second term as president

Romney: 'We fought to the very end'

[mouser]

He believed in his tax cuts (and they did increase tax revenues, which is why they keep getting extended).

They did NOT increase tax revenues...one of the reasons we're so deep in deficit now (the other reason being that Bush didn't bother funding his wars).



That does sound pretty self-interested, but at least you have the balls to admit it, unlike some who disguise their self-interest (getting rid of benefits and regulations) as COMMON interest ("job creation").

I linked the reports from the Dept of the Treasury for Tess once. For at least the years Bush was in office, tax revenues increased. If they've fallen since then, I can think of any number of reasons (starting with the global recession). What was 'lost' in personal tax revenues was more than made up for in corporate taxes.

Poor and middle class people tend to spend all their money, so the money they 'saved' got passed to corps as revenue, and taxed at the corporate rate.


Job creation is such a freaking joke, except that it's so serious. I remember the 'bridge to nowhere' getting a lot of flak and the money not accepted. The San Francisco Bay Bridge was a 'bridge to nowhere' when it was built. That would have put people to work. If you want to put people to work then put people to work - theirs plenty of infrastructure projects and maintenance that needs to be done that could employ a lot of people. But I guess that's too simple.

Kind of like taxing the 'very rich' (define that however you want). Romney say he wants to get more money from them, but by rewriting the tax code to close loopholes (that were created for a reason) and a bunch of other crap. Or, you could just change one number in the tax code and get the same (probably better) effect.

[mouser]

Yahoo at least has called the election for Obama with 274 electoral votes (and counting):

Barack Obama wins election for second term as president

Romney: 'We fought to the very end'

Thank the Goddess we don't have to wait while they sift through 'provisional' ballots...

[Cylnar]

I linked the reports from the Dept of the Treasury for Tess once. For at least the years Bush was in office, tax revenues increased. If they've fallen since then, I can think of any number of reasons (starting with the global recession). What was 'lost' in personal tax revenues was more than made up for in corporate taxes.

Poor and middle class people tend to spend all their money, so the money they 'saved' got passed to corps as revenue, and taxed at the corporate rate.

Revenues would have been higher without the tax cuts. Cutting taxes on the rich does not mean they create more jobs, unless you count jobs in China (there is actually a TAX CREDIT for offshoring, if you can believe it).

If you want to put people to work then put people to work - theirs plenty of infrastructure projects and maintenance that needs to be done that could employ a lot of people. But I guess that's too simple.

Absolutely agree with this statement. It's a matter of mustering political will and overcoming political opposition from those who believe that government can do nothing good (like providing jobs).

Kind of like taxing the 'very rich' (define that however you want). Romney say he wants to get more money from them, but by rewriting the tax code to close loopholes (that were created for a reason) and a bunch of other crap. Or, you could just change one number in the tax code and get the same (probably better) effect.

During the 1950s the top tax rate was 91% on top incomes. And yet somehow, miraculously, that decade managed to be the MOST prosperous decade, with the most prosperous middle class in American history!

Compare that with America now. The very rich have never been richer. But the middle class is steadily getting poorer, and every year millions fall out of the middle class into poverty. What's wrong with this picture?

[mouser]

I linked the reports from the Dept of the Treasury for Tess once. For at least the years Bush was in office, tax revenues increased. If they've fallen since then, I can think of any number of reasons (starting with the global recession). What was 'lost' in personal tax revenues was more than made up for in corporate taxes.

Poor and middle class people tend to spend all their money, so the money they 'saved' got passed to corps as revenue, and taxed at the corporate rate.

Revenues would have been higher without the tax cuts. Cutting taxes on the rich does not mean they create more jobs, unless you count jobs in China (there is actually a TAX CREDIT for offshoring, if you can believe it).

It wasn't the tax cuts for the 'rich' that did it. It was the tax cuts for everyone else. Rich people save or invest their money - where it gets taxed as long term capital gains.

During the 1950s the top tax rate was 91% on top incomes. And yet somehow, miraculously, that decade managed to be the MOST prosperous decade, with the most prosperous middle class in American history!

Compare that with America now. The very rich have never been richer. But the middle class is steadily getting poorer, and every year millions fall out of the middle class into poverty. What's wrong with this picture?

You don't have to go nearly that high. Just a ten percent increase (meaning going from 36 to 40%) of income over a million dollars would be enough to put a huge dent in the deficit - I'd say eliminate it, but who knows how much Obamacare is going to end up costing, along with all the interest payments that keep growing on our ever expanding pile of debt. 45% and you'd be there no problems.

Although ideally, you'd do something about offshoring  of money.
Why is it that 'progressives' like George Soros want the government to spend a lot of money but not get any of theirs?

[Cat]

Who's George Soros?

[mouser]

Who's George Soros?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

[mouser]

Now the question is will the Republican house stonewall us into the fiscal cliff out of spite...

[Tessera]

Well, it was a landslide in electoral votes. Obama got nearly 100 more electoral votes than Romney.

Right now, I expect that the Republican party is going through an identity crisis. They'd better be,
because their nasty lies and rhetoric, along with being totally out of touch with modern America,
is what lost them this race. And those revolting comments about rape didn't help them, either.

As for the Tea Party, analysis of the election indicates quite clearly that the Tea Party is more of
a liability than an asset. Tea Party candidates all over the country got their asses kicked.

[Uglek]

Stayed up way to late, since I am on the east coast, to watch the entire process and overall I am pleased.  To be honest I was on the anyone but Mitt bandwagon not the pro Barry one but given one party supports personal freedom more then the other I find myself voting mainly Democrat these days.  Which truly does bother me cause the whole two party system is crap!

[Caspa]

They could make a genuine attempt at saving face and trying to appear a little more centrist by formally executing anyone identifying themselves as Tea Party members.

I think Snoop Dogg actually hit the nail on the head about why Romney was such a terrible candidate (he was terrible, regardless of what the mainstream news said) in that he reminds you of every single boss you've ever hated.

While I'm here, could somebody kindly explain the big deal over the "fisical cliff" debacle?  As an outsider, it seems to me that the best case senario is that nothing is done and this "fisical cliff" happens.  The Bush tax failure that ruined the American economy expires and America can go back to growing strong and doing well.  It beats the shit out of the most likely scenario of the Grand Bargain where Obama is set to decimate social security, medicare and medicaid at some time around Thanksgiving.

[Cylnar]

Well, in my neck of the woods it looks like Democrat Rich Carmona has been defeated in the Senate race by Koch/Rove backed Teapublican Jeff Flake. Carmona ran a great campaign, coming from behind and even pulling several points ahead in the last few weeks of the election...which prompted a huge spending surge from the Kochs and Crossroads GPS on behalf of Flake, including an ad where incumbent John McCain and outgoing Jon Kyl talk about what a piece of shit Carmona is...when they just couldn't say enough good stuff about him when G.W. Bush tapped him as Surgeon General a few years back. So it seems the slimeball Kyl will be replaced by another Republican slimeball and Arizona's Senate delegation will remain red until such time as McCain is up for reelection (and likely until he retires - or dies. One can only hope).

In the newly gerrymandered Second Congressional District in which I live (it used to be the Eighth), the race between Democrat Ron Barber (who was elected a few months ago in a special election to replace Gabby Giffords) and his TP challenger Martha McSally remains too close to call; McSally is currently ahead by about 1300 votes (about 0.5%). Two other districts have not been called yet, and of the six that have been called, four have been called for Repukes.

[Tessera]

Get out of Arizona. It's an evil place. Come to southern California instead. 

[Cylnar]

Been there, done that. Born in San Francisco, lived near there till 2, lived in San Diego till 7, visited my dad (parents divorced when I was 8 after my mom and my brother and I had moved to Oregon) in Chula Vista on basically alternate summers till 16. Yeah, Arizona sucks but most of my family is here. If I leave it will be to return to the Pacific Northwest, a.k.a. someplace that will not turn to sand dunes once the out-of-state water supplies dry up due to global warming and/or collapse of society, as most of SoCal will.

[perez007usa]

I guess, all and all, with this election. No matter how much money that was "poured" into Romney for which is insane amounts. The American people had said enough already, "WE Made the Choice"! So much in the Rep. said about America people being dumb fucks. Guess who's smiling now. 

[beetle]

I think my state was one of the "battleground" states. At the very least we got alot of attention from the the republicans trying to get everyone to vote for Romney. All the mail and phone calls I have gotten have been from the Republicans or a group trying to get me to vote Republican. The Democrats didn't even bother to send anything. I went to vote early yesterday morning and was in line for roughly five minutes or less. It took me longer than that to fill out the ballot. When I went in to vote they just asked me my name and address without needing my voter registration card or drivers license or any other form of ID. All in all it was a pretty easy year to vote for me. Had two people standing outside offer me "sample ballots" The first person being with the Tea Party and the second being with the Democratic party. I turned down both sample ballots.

[Tessera]

Here's a little parting message for Mitt Romney from MoveOn.org, a progressive grassroots
organization that I have been an active member of for many years:




LOL   :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Buh bye, you self-serving neo-con pile of shit.

[perez007usa]

LOL! I like that!