PC innovation is dying

[Tessera]

Tess, how long have we been saying this.

For about six years.

[Zoli]

One more thing to think about: sadly, even a Wii is more powerful graphically then the average PC sold these days(yeah I'm looking at you, Intel); I don't even think about the image quality...
IMO, Intel with the integrated graphics has done more damage to the PC gaming then all the big publishers and consoles together.

[Tessera]

Oh, come now... do you honestly believe that the integrated graphics in a Wii is more powerful than something like this..?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102955

No chance.

[Cylnar]

I think he's talking about pre-bundled el cheapo PCs they sell for like $500 or less at shitholes like Wal-Mart.

[Schu]

Zoli, you do realize that the consoles are set to run at a maximum of 30 FPS, and all graphical controls are locked at specific settings, so that they don't over run the on-board graphics capability's. Try sitting within 4 feet of a TV while running a game on a console, it's going to look like shit. Intel integrated graphics have never been up to par, they can barely run office apps let alone 3D apps.

The consoles are 6 or 7 year old technology, while the PC is still running about 2 year old technology. True we have 6 even 8 core CPU's, but the software industry hasn't even caught up to the quad cores capability's. Consoles don't even use a duel core CPU so why should the gaming industry take advantage of the multi-threading capability's of the multi-core CPU's, if they are making games for the console.

There are very few software company's taking advantage of the multi-core CPU's and the gaming software industry is what was driving that. The PC has made amazing advances in the last 10 years, mostly due to PC gaming, but in the last 2 of those years things have pretty much stalled. Why should the PC hardware industry innovate when the software industry has stagnated (thanks to the console)?

I think he's talking about pre-bundled el cheapo PCs they sell for like $500 or less at shitholes like Wal-Mart.

I think he means the or less ones  I have an old AMD K7 550Mhz with an even older 3dfx voodoo 3-2000 video card laying around that can play better then one of those pieces of shit  :laugh:

[perez007usa]

Try an OLD 166mhz with a on broad graphic card, plays better than the Game Cube I have. No, the PC is way better than any console. Besides that, you can play those console game just as easy on the PC with the right emulator.   

[Zoli]

Oh, come now... do you honestly believe that the integrated graphics in a Wii is more powerful than something like this..?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102955

No chance.

Well, I was clearly referring to Intel products(even twice); maybe the integrated graphics term isn't clear, so let's clarify what I meant:
Integrated graphics means that the graphic processor is integrated together with something else; older(pre Core iSomething) together with the northbridge, newer(Core iSomething) with the CPU. So practically I meant that the Wii graphics processor is more powerful than the one in Core i7-2700(as example).

I think he's talking about pre-bundled el cheapo PCs they sell for like $500 or less at shitholes like Wal-Mart.

Actally, I was referring up to the $699.98 Best-Buy&co specials; practically anything Intel with integrated graphics(see the definition above); and yes, you can find integrated graphics at that price level...On laptops at even higher price point.

Zoli, you do realize that the consoles are set to run at a maximum of 30 FPS, and all graphical controls are locked at specific settings, so that they don't over run the on-board graphics capability's. Try sitting within 4 feet of a TV while running a game on a console, it's going to look like shit. Intel integrated graphics have never been up to par, they can barely run office apps let alone 3D apps.

The consoles are 6 or 7 year old technology, while the PC is still running about 2 year old technology. True we have 6 even 8 core CPU's, but the software industry hasn't even caught up to the quad cores capability's. Consoles don't even use a duel core CPU so why should the gaming industry take advantage of the multi-threading capability's of the multi-core CPU's, if they are making games for the console.

There are very few software company's taking advantage of the multi-core CPU's and the gaming software industry is what was driving that. The PC has made amazing advances in the last 10 years, mostly due to PC gaming, but in the last 2 of those years things have pretty much stalled. Why should the PC hardware industry innovate when the software industry has stagnated (thanks to the console)?

I think he's talking about pre-bundled el cheapo PCs they sell for like $500 or less at shitholes like Wal-Mart.

I think he means the or less ones  I have an old AMD K7 550Mhz with an even older 3dfx voodoo 3-2000 video card laying around that can play better then one of those pieces of shit  :laugh:

Schu, I do realize everything you written down(even the errors, which I don't want to discuss in this post; maybe in another one), but do you realize that roughly 60% of the current PC's are sold with integrated Intel graphics? Add ~30% for the entry level video card(max Radeon HD 5670 or equivalent) market, and how much remains for decent gaming?
I think this is the BIGGER problem then the consolization, since the integrated graphics(except the AMD APU's) or entry level graphic cards are not suited for gaming, giving lower graphic experience then a Wii. And since the gaming industry is all about volumes, why bother with the average shitty PC, when ANY current console can give you better graphics & experience(and higher ASP)? There are some PC game exceptions here&there(Torchlight anyone?), but never from the big publishers... I think the question "But does it plays Crysis?" is still current.
Opinion: for every pirated copy of a game there is lost sale because of the hardware requirements.
And one more thing: I think innovation is platform-independent; our view is a little bit deformed, and tend to forget some true innovations which happened on consoles*...OTOH, I think to innovate on the PC is much easier(less restrictions).
Regarding the consolization: I think a better term would be the hollywoodisation of the game industry, since hollywood has a long&rich tradition and experience in killing innovation and promote mediocrity.
Regarding your 3dfx voodoo: if you ever intend to reinstall again, be sure to check out the latest SFFT Unified Architecture drivers.

*Disclaimer: I never owned a console, or intend to own one.

[Tessera]

Zoli,

This is primarily a gaming site. Therefore, I think it is reasonable
to assume that when we talk about PC's, we are talking about
sophisticated gaming rigs... not entry-level, bargain basement
pieces of shit.

And the fact remains that there is not s single console system
in this world whose hardware can compete with a gaming PC.

[Zoli]

Tessera, I agree partially with your post. The point what wanted to make: unfortunately the majority of the PC's out there are steaming piles of crap, and maybe that is one of the reasons of the current state of the gaming industry. Sorry if I was too specific and/or long in detailing my point.

[Tessera]

Yes but you see, I do not agree with your entire approach.

Sure... most of the PC's in this world are crap. But most of the people who own PC's are not gamers.

People who enjoy playing games on their PC's are far more likely to invest in superior hardware.
They are not going to buy a bare bones, entry level PC from Best Buy and then expect it to be
a good choice for gaming. No, they are far more likely to spend a few bucks more to get stuff
like a faster CPU, a better video card, and a bit more system memory.

Therefore, it is logical to assume that the gaming market is a competition between gaming PC's,
and gaming consoles. Not between gaming consoles and inferior, el-cheapo PC's.

I am going to stick with my original assertion. The publishers are pushing everyone over to consoles
simply because they can maintain stricter control over their products that way. They don't care if it
means that most future games will be inferior... they just want to do whatever it takes to avoid
having to compete with modders and online piracy. Consoles are not entirely immune to those
two issues... but they are far more immune than PC's are. Hence the trend that we are seeing.

[perez007usa]

Therefore, it is logical to assume that the gaming market is a competition between gaming PC's,
and gaming consoles. Not between gaming consoles and inferior, el-cheapo PC's.

This is what most people see when they go and buy these El-cheapo PC's. Something that will last,,   but it won't.

[BloodyKidney]

Never obsolete? 24x cdrom drive, AOL ready, intel celeron processor and the big seller a 3.5 floppy disk drive(those things are gonna last forever) Im sold!
:laugh:
I wonder how many people buy PCs based off of the stickers. When I worked at best buy I would always rip that crap off when ever I put out a machine. It was damn insulting to me and I knew that people are gaulible to believe that stuff.

[perez007usa]

Believe me, the gullible still  believe in it.  The more glitter, the more they sell. 

[Schu]

A Wii would out perform that, "big time". 32MB of RAM, 7.5GB hard drive and a 56k modem? Man, that thing is an antique. Better yet the sticker says it has a 40X cd-rom, but the cd-rom says it is 24X  :laugh:

Zoli, thanks for the info on the drivers, but that old thing only runs DOS & Win 95 for my very old nostalgic games.

I do agree about the integrated Intel graphics, they have always sucked, and the new AMD APU's do look promising, but that is a totally different animal. The AMD APU's are basically a multi-core CPU with an integrated GPU. If the mother board manufacturers can start making a good enough controller chip for the APU, then we may start to see some good integrated graphics for base-line computers.

[Abhijeet]

Consoles games have made PC games less fun. Most developers now do lazy port to PC from console. The first time i realized this when i played Halo on PC. Carrying fewer weapons was a huge disappointment , even DOS games allowed more weapons. Another big step back was restrictive save games where you can't save game everywhere (GTA series).

[beetle]

I don't think I had that save issue with GTA 3 and Vice City. If I remember correctly I could save anywhere with those.