The new list: UP: List Of Mods/Changes Added To VTMB

[perez007usa]

The only reason Wesp is stripping things out of his recent releases is
because he is trying to compete with the True Patch.

So now we have the obvious question:

If you are already using the True Patch, then why do you need Wesp..?

Life is a bitch! When you get payback! 

[Schu]

The only reason Wesp is stripping things out of his recent releases is
because he is trying to compete with the True Patch.

So now we have the obvious question:

If you are already using the True Patch, then why do you need Wesp..?

Agreed.

Kyon, you have to remember that Wesp isn't about to remove everything he has put into his basic version. Wesp himself made
the mistake of informing me and the general public, that the reason he wont separate the basic and plus versions of the UP, is
because of dependency's he wrote in Python to keep the maps (among other things) working as he intended. Which in my
opinion is broken, and a bad idea.

Think about it for a minute, the UP basic is reliant upon the mods that he put into the game to function. That to me makes no
sense, the patch should fix bugs and not have to rely on anything other than itself to work as intended. The mods on the other
hand, should have to rely on the patch to function, not the other way around. That is why I like the True Patch, it needs nothing
but the game to function, and mods made using it do not require it in order to work, unless certain fixes in the TP are required for
the mod work.

Schu I really want to see what's inside in the 8.0 basic . I will check some files but not the game . Because my disks are in the home . Could you check and write something about it ? I really have a curiosity about this . He called this version most stripped version of every time . Maybe we will give a try .

Also, that comment has me slightly concerned. I am not doing this to help the UP, I am doing it for information so people can
have an informed opinion and be able to form their own without bias. Unfortunately those who could refute it, or give a
decent rebuttal don't want to come here, they just take it to PV or cry on Steam and that is not where the thread is.

[Tessera]

I agree completely. Wesp has been doing things backwards for years. You don't set things up so that the "basic" version requires the "complicated" version in order to function... you should always do it the other way around. The simpler version should always come first. And then, if you want to add something onto it later, then that is when you should be installing the more complicated version. That is how we establish a baseline: with the most basic version available. And then everything else should be built on top of that. This is how the True Patch works and in my opinion, it is how EVERY legitimate patch should work.

I have never understood why Wesp does things the way he does. I think it's just another example of how he keeps painting himself into a corner.

For now, I just find it laughable (and also very predictable) that Wesp is suddenly announcing his "most stripped down version yet," or however he is wording it. It doesn't take a mind reader to figure out why he is even doing such a thing in the first place. It's because of this thread. No other reason. People have been reading this thread, whether they use our patch or not. And it's been hitting home with a lot of Bloodlines players. I have no doubt that they have been expressing their concerns and their resentments to Wesp, after reading the numerous revelations within this thread regarding his unwarranted meddling with the game. So is it any wonder that Wesp is starting to cave in under the pressure..?

Folks... if you want a basic patch for Bloodlines, then you don't need to monkey around with Wesp's nonsense. Nor do you need to beg, plead, cajole and badger Wesp to make sweeping revisions to his hopelessly broken "patch.' You just need to install the TPG, from right here on tessmage.com. Everything that you are looking for is right there waiting for you, including numerous and LEGITIMATE repairs that every single version of Wesp's "patch" lacks.

So don't waste your time with Wesp. Just install the True Patch and you'll be all set. And if you want any mods after that... then come talk to us. I'm sure we can put something together for you... if it isn't too ridiculous, of course.

[Kyon]

Sorry for this Schu and Tess . I don't want to say bad thing . Only point he mentioning this really stripped and including more fixes than TPG . I want to know what is this "more" . Again this is only a curiosity And I am already a TPG user not UP .

[Cylnar]

Wesp breaks things in every single iteration of the UP that he has ever produced. So he has to go back and fix what he already broke. Then he claims that he has "fixed" thousands of bugs over the UP series...most of which he made himself.

The True Patch series only fixed bugs that existed IN THE ORIGINAL GAME. It has not added any NEW bugs to the game that have then needed to be fixed. That's the difference between the TPG patch and the UP mod. Accept no substitutes.

[Tessera]

Only point he mentioning this really stripped and including more fixes than TPG

Horse. Shit.

There are at least two dozen fixes within the TPG that Wesp has never fixed and probably -will never- fix.

Although I have no doubt that he's been stealing some of those fixes from the TPG. We've already seen some evidence of that.

Wesp has been lying about his work for years, Kyon. This thread has already proven that fact, beyond all doubt.

Use whatever patch you want to. But don't hand me any garbage about "more fixes." The only thing Wesp fixes these days are the things that he broke himself.

How many bugs do you think existed in this game, anyway..? Enough to require a new patch every three weeks for six years..?

Don't be ridiculous. Wesp is a liar. Case closed.

[Arglaar]

Wesp breaks things in every single iteration of the UP that he has ever produced. So he has to go back and fix what he already broke. Then he claims that he has "fixed" thousands of bugs over the UP series...most of which he made himself.

This.

[elfuego64]

How do you access the mods from here it says page error when i go to the files tab.....

[dCroissant]

Man am I glad I read this. I've been debating which patch to install, and Wesp only has the notes for the 3 most recent ones up on his site. I'm glad I got to see a full list of (most) every change, and most of them do seem really, really, unnecessary. And more over, they're all really vague. Half of them have no context, and I'm sure as hell not going to install mystery changes to my game. So I just wanted to say thank you for making such a thorough list.

[perez007usa]

Remember this, dCroissant, once you install wesp's crap, it will not work with TGP & mods. You need to uninstall everything including the registery, and reinstall a fresh VTM:B and use the TPG and play it the way the it's supposed to played.

[Schu]

dCroissant, your welcome, and I'm glad it was of help. Although, seeing as you only have 5 posts and the last one was a
couple of days ago, your only here for the Mega-Mod.

I am actually here just to give an up-date, so here it is. I am not going to finish the list with Wesp's latest insanity (Up v8.0),
because the only place to get any of the older info on the UP is in this and 2 other threads here at tessmage, which makes it
very hard for me to send others to sites with the same info for proof that the patch-notes are his, and not fabricated. Also I
have other projects that I am working on, and this list is low on the priority list.

Wesp has gotten very paranoid and confrontational since the release of these lists. He has even gone so far as sending me
PM's on the Steam boards trying to convince me that I am wrong, yet Wesp and is cronies wont come here and voice their
opinions in public (seeing as this thread was in a public sub-forum of tessmage). They just want me to admit I was in the wrong
on the Steam boards, where they have a majority, or too continue to fight with them and get banned.

I whole heart-idly agree with Tessera, that these lists are one of the main reasons why Wesp is changing the Basic version of
the UP. He wants his accolades and the followers that come with them, and he has been losing that ever since the introduction
of the True Patch, and now these lists. People have been questioning whether his changes to the game are really necessary,
and with all of the new players being introduced to the game because of Steam and Gamefly sales, he has to do something in
order to keep people stroking his e peen by downloading the UP. Even if it means circumventing the truth.

Wesp has lied before and will again, but he is in the public spotlight and his lies will one day come back and bite him in the
ass, just as these lists have proven. I just wish one of the former members of Troika would shut Wesp up, then shot him down
by posting somewhere (anywhere), that what he calls restorations were never meant to be in the finished game, or was
removed for a good reason.

One more thing: If you do a Google search on the TPG vs UP or (the UP vs TPG) it will be third on the list, and all of the others
have nothing to do with the True Patch or the UP.

[Tessera]

Schu,

The Steam boards really are unimportant. Only a tiny fraction of VTMB players pay any attention to those forums.

During the past year, downloads of the True Patch Gold Edition have practically skyrocketed. I attribute this rather dramatic increase in popularity to four significant factors:


(1) This thread, which has made it abundantly clear that Wesp has done far more to harm Bloodlines (and its community) than to help it.

(2) An emerging perception on the part of VTMB players that Wesp is, in fact, a very deceptive and dishonest individual. Not to mention being a glory seeker.

(3) The public release of the VTMB Mega-Mod, which requires the True Patch version of Bloodlines in order to function.

(4) Last but certainly not least, the simple fact that the True Patch fixes more bugs than the UP, without doing anything to alter, undermine, or otherwise harm VTMB in any ways whatsoever.


So when you think about it, Wesp and his small-but-vocal cadre of misguided adolescent goons are no longer important. VTMB players... most especially adult VTMB players... are not as stupid as Wesp believes them to be. With a little help from our side, a growing number of VTMB players have begun to realize that their very best option is to avoid Wesp and his poorly conceived "patch," and install the much safer and more reliable True Patch instead.

I want to thank you again for the excellent work that you did in putting this thread together. It will remain on this board and in public view permanently.  

[beetle]

If the patch notes were available to the public sections of others sites you could MAYBE use the internet archive to go back to see them.

[Drazgar]

Actually, this topic was the main reason for me to register and say thanks for the most detailed list of changes in game... it's bad that my first playthrough few years ago happened to be mixed with one of those modifications (ver. 6.8 irc), so i guess i ruined my first impression of game (even considering the fact i played with "Basic" version).

Worst thing, i've been one of those crazy guys, who wanted to adapt (actually, make a new one, cuz old one happened to be a bullshit, which this game didn't deserved) an old rus translation of the game (for ver. 1.2, with little neccesary additions from earlier editions of Wesp's mod) for newer editions   I'm glad my work wasn't completed, because of lack of time, feeling, that i'm actually just losing my time (yeah yeah... i felt that i'm doing a bad thing, even if it was a good translation practice for me) etc...

But as i've already mentioned, i haven't been alone in my beginnings, so it's "russified" edition (with it's own modifications and texts from old translation....) now exist. I guess that's the answer, what people need... most of my compatriots knows about modded nature of Wesp's changes, but... you know what i mean (:

So, that's the point, thanks for another chance to compare the things and get an answers.

[Schu]

Everybody, stay away from the Packfile Explorer, it was actually made for another Source Engine game (Left 4 Dead). When
I loaded it up to check out what it was about, and how it worked, it corrupted, then took over a bunch of files for HL2,
L4D, and Bloodlines. So stay far away from it, because it took me a lot of work to get it out of all of my Bloodlines folders.

Now I admit that it was my own stupidity and curiosity that caused this, but an application should not search-out all files that
are associated with a particular engine, then just take them over. So I just thought I would give everyone a heads-up because
there are some compatibility issues that may pop-up.

Metzwing, you might try and finish your translation of the subtitles using the TPG, I think that there are quite a few players
who would appreciate it, as long as it was done properly, and in context. I admit it would be a lot of work, but if you do it in
your spare time and you have a good understanding of both languages, it could be quite popular, especially in Eastern Europe.

[Tessera]

To Schu and everyone else...

The only PAK file utility that is approved for use with VTMB is Turvy's VPK Tools.

Turvy's VPK Tools are included within the True Patch Gold Edition, in the "Utility" folder.

Never, ever use anything else.   :police:

[Schu]

Very true, but I wasn't trying to use it for Bloodlines. I was tinkering around with Left 4 Dead, when I realized that the Packfile Explorer had contaminated Bloodlines and Half Life 2. I also have a copy of the latest Source Engine and Valves SledgeHammer on my computer, and they don't interfere with anything. They don't even search out the Source Engine files that are installed, you have to load the files manually, just like with Blender, any texture editing tool, or text editor.

Like I said, my own stupidity, curiosity and I guess misplaced trust in Valve, taught me a lesson I didn't need to learn. 

[Schu]

Sorry for the double post here, but I found this funny, and it is related to the list.

Oh man, you guys have got to read this thread on the Steam boards.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2768042

It looks like the UP is totally borked. It's in an even bigger mess now that Wesp is trying to fix his previous changes (but still
add more junk mods to the (cough,cough) patch).

What I find to be funny is that people are thanking him for his work, then reporting bugs in the next post, or reporting a bug
then thanking him for it  :laugh: