The new list: UP: List Of Mods/Changes Added To VTMB

[Schu]

Wait, that graffiti is added? It would really help if you could take screenshots for comparison.

I started playing with Wesp's mod, so I just assumed it was always there.

Nope, the words on the side of Fat Larry's truck is not part of the original game. It is something that Wesp added. If
you stop to look at it, you will notice that it is too bright and seems out of place against an old dull white truck. If you
look at all of the original graffiti in the game you will notice that it looks old and worn. What wesp put on Larry's truck stands
out too much, plus he used Italian words in a mostly english and spanish speaking LA.

Sorry, I don't have any of my original saves from the vanilla game, so I cant get you a screen shot of Larry's truck.

Side note: My mistake, the words on the side of Larry's truck is Italian not Spanish.
It translates to read as: "environmental devastation and urban"  that's it, and devas tazione is misspelled it's all one word,
not two separate words. Hey Wesp next time try it this way:  "devastación del medio ambiente y renovación urbana".
Translation:  "environmental devastation and urban renewal". At least that makes for a good side joke on Larry's truck.

Never noticed any problems with the eye mod, though.

Are you using his basic or plus version? I know he used to have someones eye mod in his mod, and he may have screwed up
when removing it from basic.

One more thing, I now have publicly posted proof that Wesp is taking apart the TPG, looking for fixes, but we already
suspected that. Check out post #8: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2568503  Busted.

Addition for those who don't trust links.

quote:Wesp5
I wasn't aware that the temple door bug was fixed in the True Patch as it isn't mentioned in the patch notes.

quote:IR_Wildman
I believe your memory is failing you Wesp. We had discussed this issue some time ago, and I did point out that that bug was fixed.

quote:Wesp5
Could well be, but did you actually explain how it was done? Because there is no change to the bar at all in the map file and I can't find a reference to it in the Python file either. Without those I wouldn't know how this bug could be fixed...

Now don't get me wrong here, I have looked at other peoples work to get ideas, or to help me get through a tuff spot I am
having trouble with, but I would never use their work without first getting their permission "and" giving proper credit.
Wesp hasn't given any credit to Tessera or Acrimonious for any of their work that he has taken from the True Patch.

[Tessera]

Wesp has been reverse-engineering the True Patch for the past five years, Schu.

We have noticed multiple examples of repairs which were first introduced within the
True Patch (and/or one of its hotfixes) showing up in Wesp's "UP" shortly thereafter.
Wesp simply juggles the numbers around a bit, in order to mask the theft.

But yes... Wesp has definitely been stealing from us. I can't prove it in a court of law,
but I am quite certain of it, regardless. There have been far too many "coincidences."

Incidentally...

In the past, Wesp has been confronted several times regarding the fact that the TPG
package is significantly larger than any version of his "UP" package. I have explained
to everyone the reason for this: it is because the TPG contains more LEGITIMATE
bug fixes than any version of Wesp's so-called "patch."

Wesp, on the other hand, has danced around this issue... by making all manner of
deceptive excuses. For example, Wesp has claimed that the TPG was compressed
using minimal compression -- hence its larger file size. This is in fact not so. The TPG
package was compressed using the MAXIMUM compression level available using the
popular WinRAR file compression software. And of course, every single file was run
through WinRAR's file verification process, in order to ensure that the contents of
the TPG archive were exact and complete.

Some time later, Wesp tried another ploy. He suggested that the reason for the
large difference between his "patch" and ours was due to the extra mods and
other materials which are bundled into the TPG package. Well Wesp... that is
also a fat load of bullshit on your part, dude. But rather than waste any more
words on Wesp and his idiocy, why don't I just show all of you a nice little
screenshot instead:



The actual True Patch itself is located within a sub-folder of the TPG package
named "TRUE_PATCH_MAIN." What you see in the above screenshot is the
total size of ONLY that folder. ONLY of the actual True Patch itself. No frills,
no extras, none of the optional mods... JUST THE TRUE PATCH ITSELF.

And as you can see, I have not been deceiving anyone about its size. The TPG
is a fully-comprehensive bug-fix-only patch and as such, it contains quite a large
number of LEGITIMATE repairs which Wesp's "patch" clearly lacks.

So as we keep telling everyone: if your goal is to simply patch the actual bugs
in VTMB and then enjoy a bug-free playing experience, then the TPG is without
a doubt your very best choice. The numbers do not lie... although Wesp and his
goons certainly -do- lie and they have been doing so for the past six years.

We have facts and actual numbers. Wesp has lies and deceptive rhetoric.

Just do the math. 

[Schu]

WOW, you added over 90 megs in just 6 hot fixes, and that has taken, what? a year and a half. In that
same amount of time Wesp has released 20 to 24 different versions of the UP. All of which have broken
mods built for it, and you haven't broken a single mod with your hotfixes. Well one actually, but you put
the fix for it in the hotfix, and it was one of your own mods.

Anyway, When "you know who" releases his finished 8.0 basic version, I will test it out to see how much
he didn't fix or how many mods he left/added. He is claiming it is going to be just as named "Basic", we
shall see.

Think maybe he is getting tired of the complaints about too much shit in what is supposed to be a patch?



FROM TESSERA: Unquestionably. But I doubt that he can resist his compulsion to throw in everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink.

[Kyon]

I will wait this Schu

[Tessera]

I want to re-iterate a few things, for anyone who still does not fully understand
the terminology being used throughout this debate.

So to that end, let me post my own...


Tessera's Glossary Of Terms


Patch; official

A collection of repairs and other features, released some time after the game in question was originally released. These patches are written by the professionals who were involved in the production of the original game, hence it is entirely within their discretion as to what will (or will not) be included within their patch package. If they wish to add, or alter, or delete any of the original game's content, then they are entirely within their rights as the original developers to do so.


Patch; third-party

A collection of repairs which are typically produced by the amateur fans of the game in question. Since none of the people involved in the production of a third-party patch were in any way, shape or form associated with the original team of professional developers, it is therefore not within the prerogative of a third-party patch team to introduce any large, sweeping and arbitrary changes to the game in question. A proper third-party patch should simply contain legitimate repairs to the game which were not fixed, for whatever reason, by the original developers of said game. To do anything beyond that would be to invalidate the use of the term "patch" and instead, would constitute a third-party "mod" (see below). As for what constitutes a legitimate repair, please see the entry for "Bug; legitimate" further below.


Game Modification (or "Mod")

A game mod is something which has been created by talented (we hope) fans of the game in question. It is not so much concerned with repairs, as it is with making various arbitrary changes to the game that the modders in question consider to be desirable. Game play changes, extra fan-made content, model and texture (cosmetic) changes, and various other subjective changes to the game would be examples of a typical "mod." Since mods are by default entirely subjective in nature, then just about anything is permissible within a mod. It is an optional fan-made creation... thus it is left up to each individual player as to whether or not they are interested in installing it. Fan-made mods should never be REQUIRED... they should always be OPTIONAL. Wanting something should never be misconstrued in anyone's mind as being the same as needing something. Just because you might desire something to be different, that doesn't mean that everyone else will desire the same changes. Thus, a fan-made mod should never be imposed upon anyone. A mod is entirely the product of personal bias and individual taste and as such, it should always be a matter of choice for the end user.


Bug; legitimate

A "bug" refers to some segment of computer code which is clearly broken and dysfunctional. Therefore, what does or does not constitute a legitimate bug should never be subjective. Either it is truly broken and in need of repair -- or it is not. The only sure method for determining what is or is not a legitimate bug is really quite simple: if a clearly intended feature of the original software is not functioning properly, and if that lack of proper function is due to a poorly constructed segment of computer code, and if that segment of computer code can be rewritten in such a way as to allow the intended feature to function properly, then that segment of computer code is indeed a legitimate bug and as such, it will require a patch in order to repair it.


Bug; imaginary

An "imaginary bug" refers to any segment of a functioning piece of software which has, for whatever reason, been incorrectly perceived by the end user as being somehow defective. In almost every case, what the end user reports as a "bug" is, in actuality, simply some feature of the software in question that the user is personally having trouble with. As for why they are having trouble with it, the reasons can be many and varied. In the realm of computer games, it is usually due to the fact that the user in question is simply not a very good player. Or, the end user may have improperly installed the original software and predictably, they are now having problems with it. But rather than blame him or herself for the difficulty that they are experiencing, they instead try to massage their own egos by reporting an imaginary bug in the software. For example: "I've been trying to kill so-and-so for three hours and I can't get my gun to work right. It must be bugged." And of course, in almost all cases of this nature, the answer turns out to be that the player was not using the software correctly... hence it was not functioning in the manner intended. Obviously, this is not a bug, then. It is a simple case of user error (or a lack of skill), being blamed upon imaginary bugs which do not, in actuality, exist.

[kurtis64]

Wesp has been reverse-engineering the True Patch for the past five years, Schu.

We have noticed multiple examples of repairs which were first introduced within the
True Patch (and/or one of its hotfixes) showing up in Wesp's "UP" shortly thereafter.
Wesp simply juggles the numbers around a bit, in order to mask the theft.

But yes... Wesp has definitely been stealing from us. I can't prove it in a court of law,
but I am quite certain of it, regardless. There have been far too many "coincidences."

Incidentally...

In the past, Wesp has been confronted several times regarding the fact that the TPG
package is significantly larger than any version of his "UP" package. I have explained
to everyone the reason for this: it is because the TPG contains more LEGITIMATE
bug fixes than any version of Wesp's so-called "patch."

Wesp, on the other hand, has danced around this issue... by making all manner of
deceptive excuses. For example, Wesp has claimed that the TPG was compressed
using minimal compression -- hence its larger file size. This is in fact not so. The TPG
package was compressed using the MAXIMUM compression level available using the
popular WinRAR file compression software. And of course, every single file was run
through WinRAR's file verification process, in order to ensure that the contents of
the TPG archive were exact and complete.

Some time later, Wesp tried another ploy. He suggested that the reason for the
large difference between his "patch" and ours was due to the extra mods and
other materials which are bundled into the TPG package. Well Wesp... that is
also a fat load of bullshit on your part, dude. But rather than waste any more
words on Wesp and his idiocy, why don't I just show all of you a nice little
screenshot instead:



The actual True Patch itself is located within a sub-folder of the TPG package
named "TRUE_PATCH_MAIN." What you see in the above screenshot is the
total size of ONLY that folder. ONLY of the actual True Patch itself. No frills,
no extras, none of the optional mods... JUST THE TRUE PATCH ITSELF.

And as you can see, I have not been deceiving anyone about its size. The TPG
is a fully-comprehensive bug-fix-only patch and as such, it contains quite a large
number of LEGITIMATE repairs which Wesp's "patch" clearly lacks.

So as we keep telling everyone: if your goal is to simply patch the actual bugs
in VTMB and then enjoy a bug-free playing experience, then the TPG is without
a doubt your very best choice. The numbers do not lie... although Wesp and his
goons certainly -do- lie and they have been doing so for the past six years.

We have facts and actual numbers. Wesp has lies and deceptive rhetoric.

Just do the math. 

Men, I must avoid this subforum. Every time I read one of these  topics I finish very pissed-off and wanting to kill everyone of Planet-Vampire ... especially one that I don't will mention whose nick starts with 'R' ....
And then to Wesp, of course.

[Tessera]

Well, like I keep saying: Wesp isn't important anymore. There was a time when Wesp had a virtual monopoly on VTMB bug fixes, but that time came to an end five or six years ago.

And today, the TPG has surpassed anything that Wesp has ever done, in terms of the sheer number of legitimate bug fixes, stability and reliability, streamlined coding, a minimalist approach to the number of revisions and hotfixes, and so forth and so on.

It's a done deal. Need a solid fan-made patch for VTMB..? Then we got it right here -- the best VTMB patch on the web.  

[Schu]

Hey Tessera, you are going to love this. Take a look at the highlighted lines.

Unofficial Patch Basic only shown:
v8.0 22.04.2012
----
Removed most restored models, skins, icons and key binds from basic.
Reduced slime particles at temple and hid observatory debug switch.
Corrected Ocean House quests not closing if you refused the gallery.
Improved plus/basic Python code and fixed morphine quest state bug.
Fixed minor map problems and many dialogue details, thanks to Fabio.
Corrected Luckee Star hotel easter egg and Gimble intercom problem.
Re-fixed hostess bug and added crosshair to free view melee weapons.
Fixed bugs with Ash and Chastity quests and with the medical guard.
Added shoe textures to Ash, Ash double and Slater, thanks to MooCHa.
Restored eight sounds to Ocean House, two to SM and one to warrens.
Closed museum and Hallowbrook map holes and changed the doors there.
Fixed Tseng, guard, stripper, raver and more models, thanks MooCHa.

Now I'm not sure, but I think Tess deleted the thread with these vary issues posted in it, at least I couldn't find it.
Do the highlighted and under lined, lines look familiar to anyone else?

Either that kid didn't do a proper clean install, or he wanted Tess to fix Wesp's fuck-ups.

[Cylnar]

Would this be it? http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index.php/topic,58585.0.html

[Tessera]

Either that kid didn't do a proper clean install, or he wanted Tess to fix Wesp's fuck-ups.

You mean the Argentinian kid posing as "Lydia..?" The weird little teenager that I banned last week..?

Yes, that was my suspicion also, when I saw him posting several alleged "bugs" that have never, ever existed in the True Patch.

I think it is fair to conclude that he was actually using Wesp's latest "patch," which as we can see from your quote, contained yet another set of bugs that Wesp himself created. Wesp seems to be doing a wonderful job of adding more bugs to VTMB than he actually fixes these days. And never once in his patch notes does he mention that his latest "repairs" are actually fixes to things that he himself broke in one of his previous releases. But what else is new..? That's been the ongoing story with Wesp for the past five years.

So yeah... the little idiot was pretending to be a True Patch user, when in reality, he was hoping that I would come up with some kind of fix for Wesp's own broken garbage.

What a world. Anyway, neither of those bugs have ever existed for True Patch users. We don't break things (like Wesp does), we only fix them.  

[Schu]

Would this be it? http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index.php/topic,58585.0.html

Oh shit, I didn't even think to check the darkside. Thanks Cylnar.

You mean the Argentinian kid posing as "Lydia..?" The weird little teenager that I banned last week..?

Yes, that was my suspicion also, when I saw him posting several alleged "bugs" that have never, ever existed in the True Patch.

Yup thats the one. That screen shot of Jack at the beginning of the tutorial is what gave him away. That comment isn't even in the vanilla game.

[Tessera]

That screen shot of Jack at the beginning of the tutorial is what gave him away. That comment isn't even in the vanilla game.

Exactly... and that's how I nailed the little bastard.  :laugh:

And ya know, it's pretty sad when the users of Wesp's crappy "patch" are showing up HERE looking for bug fixes.
It just shows you how disconnected Wesp has become. They can't get any satisfaction from Wesp... so they show
up here instead, hoping to put one over on me. But I think that says a lot more about Wesp than it does about them,
when you think about it. Why people keep using his horrible "patch" is beyond my understanding.

[Schu]

Yes it is sad, and I can see why it is pissing you off, but on the other hand, people are starting to see that Wesp does not have
their best interests at heart (at least as far as a proper running game is concerned). Some of the newer members of PV are
starting to see past the apparent arrogance and massive ego that the hard core PV crowd paint you out to have. So what happens
is they come here "and lie" in the hopes of getting a fix for their patch of choice, to only find out that you cant or wont, fix it, and
you cant tell them how to fix it, because it's not an issue with the TPG or Mega-Mod.

So what can they do? Change patches to test things out, then load your Mega-Mod and enjoy the eye candy, that they cant see
using the UP. The next thing you know, the more industrious ones, are going to start making mods using the TPG, using the
instructions that are found on this site. Soon enough, there will be mods that will replicate the things that Wesp has done....
only better, because people will be able to pick and choose the mods they want.

Yeah, I know, it'll probably never happen, but one can hope.

On Topic: I'm going to be doing a little research on the UP v8.0 to see if the basic version is actually what Wesp says it is...
"basic", which I am doubting. I really don't like the idea of using a third-party self installer, that has been put together by a
spin-master who wont even give you a straight answer too a straight question. Don't believe me? Just check out the Steam
boards and see for yourself. I'm getting the feeling I'm being stalked. Every-time I post, Wesp is right there posting after me to
refute my post, and he doesn't even quote me properly, he picks and chooses what he wants, then takes what I posted out
of context to suit his own means. That is what I hate about teachers, they think they can treat everyone they have to deal
with, like one of the kids they are intrusted to teach, and not as their equal.

Plus he only posts on the Bloodlines boards, and nowhere else.

[Tessera]

Schu, just laugh at him. He isn't worth any more than that. He's just a powerless little punk, who has
about as much creativity as an earthworm. And the same goes for Wesp, his butt buddy.  

You don't see True Patch users behaving like that and it's for a very good reason: unlike Wesp's crowd,
none of us are desperately trying to uphold a big, fat lie. TPG users also tend to be more mature and
sophisticated than Wesp's crowd. Anyone taking the time to read this board would have figured that
out about us within 15 minutes, tops.

Think about it for a minute, Schu. Think about all of the desperate, nasty and underhanded behavior that
has come out of Wesp and his goons during the past five years. Have you noticed an underlying pattern
in any of that crappola..? Because I have...

They go out of their way to prevent other Bloodlines players from even KNOWING about the True Patch.

Have you noticed that trend..? By burying pro-TPG posts on various boards... by trying to get pro-TPG
users banned from various boards... by sabotaging the Wikipedia entries for the True Patch... by doing
everything that they can do to spread false rumors and "anti-Tessera" propaganda... by shouting down
TPG users and treating them in an extremely rude and childish manner...

See what I mean..?

So now we're left with the obvious question: what are they so afraid of..? So we have a competing
patch for VTMB. So what..? Why does the TPG make them feel so threatened and insecure..?

I'm not playing dime store psychologist here. This is pretty basic stuff, so far as human behavior is concerned.
When a small-but-vocal clique goes out of their way to drown out the competition, it is almost always for the
same reason... regardless of the issue. It's because they feel threatened by the competition and what's more,
they feel as if they may not be able to compete with the competition on a fair playing field.

When you analyze it that way, we could almost go so far as to say that the more they attack the True Patch,
the more they are actually ENDORSING IT.  :laugh:

[Schu]

Lol, I love the way you look at it dude. You don't give a shit, you know what you and Acrimonious did, you guys know that
you made a good reliable patch that's not going to change after years, let alone every month. I mean come-on there was 3 to 4
years between the "504at" and the "TPG". That should tell people something, but they don't look at what is right in front of
them, and that aggravates the hell out of people like me.

In my opinion, Wesp does not deserve the accolades he has been getting. I want to tear into him so fucking bad, but there is
only 2 places I can do that, and 1 of them I will get banned (Steam). I have already been banned at PV for ripping into Wesp
and I don't want to get banned at Steam, because I can still be a dissenting voice, against the UP, but that is getting harder
every-time Wesp starts typing. Like I said, I feel like I'm being stalked by Wesp, and he is doing it to piss-me-off so I will
tear into him and get banned from the Steam boards. I ain't going to give him the satisfaction.

Anyway, enough of my ranting. I have the latest of the UP (YUK), and I will try and give an unbiased opinion. Just because I
don't like Wesp and his way of doing things, doesn't mean I cant keep an open mind about his work. I'll post what I think later
in another post, and add to the OP when I'm done.

[Tessera]

In my opinion, Wesp does not deserve the accolades he has been getting.

Wesp is getting accolades..? From who..? Gushing, clueless teenagers..?


In the past five years, how many legitimate complaints has Wesp received about his various releases..?

I don't know the exact answer to that question, but they number into the thousands.


And in the past five years, how many legitimate complaints have I received regarding the True Patch..?

That's easy... just search this board. You won't find any at all. Or at best, you might find three or four.
And on those few occasions when we did indeed receive a legitimate complaint, I got right on it and a
hotfix was released within a week. Most usually within a few days.


Wesp is an amateur.  

[Kyon]

Schu I really want to see what's inside in the 8.0 basic . I will check some files but not the game . Because my disks are in the home . Could you check and write something about it ? I really have a curiosity about this . He called this version most stripped version of every time . Maybe we will give a try .

[Tessera]

The only reason Wesp is stripping things out of his recent releases is
because he is trying to compete with the True Patch.

So now we have the obvious question:

If you are already using the True Patch, then why do you need Wesp..?