The new list: UP: List Of Mods/Changes Added To VTMB

[Farrell McKinsie]

Tessera, or anyone, for that matter,

Has Wesp every explained his reasoning for changing things in the game?   I played less then a year ago what must have been an UP patch/mod game, and noticed some things that were just unexplainable. Things like items no longer in the same place, (the one that comes to mind is the relic you find in the Oceanside Hotel. In the UP version it was no longer there, but replaced with a box that opened, but nothing was in there. You found the item somewhere else later in the game.) Second was Fat Larry's van being switched with the one in the ally next to the church in Downtown. Many others. Some where interesting, the Bobcat forklift at the haunted Mansion slamming into the trailer when you got the keys,  others, like the forklift being pushed forward by the guy in the warehouse.
Why does he think changing some of these around is adding to the game? Any Idea's?   
Is it just Ego?  Look what I can do?  Does he ever say why he makes some of these changes?

Some I can understand, even if I don't agree.  Making the Katana or crossbow available at Foxy Boxes.....
Others seem to add some to the game, the bobcat at the Oceanside Motel, it was a bit spooky... and seemed to add to that particular area.
but most, I just don't get....
Any comments or ideas??

[Schu]

No he hasn't. At least not to the satisfaction of the entire community.

All he does is quote something from what one of the developers said in the past, then takes that quote out of context to justify his absurd changes. He is very good at that, and that is why I call him a spin-master (he has done this to me personally many times on the Steam boards).

To be in depth:
Things no-longer being where they used to be, like Fat Larry's truck. He said that it made no sense that Larry would be where he was, because of the security guard at the gate, and the statement of "I saw you comin down the street". Well, Troika gave us a clue about the guard, in his disappearing when we get the quest, and who is to say that Larry is always in the back of his truck (Troika let us use our imaginations, to come up with our own theory's).

The removing the pendent from its original location (in the Ocean House) was just plain stupid, that was the whole idea behind you going there in the first place.

The "Hellcat/Bobcat" mod, and the guy moving the forklift mod, are just that, mods and do not belong in a patch. Unfortunately he claims that they were omitted by Troika, and were intended to be in the game. There is no way for us to know that, so he is assuming and taking what the devs have said out of context, because of the information left on the disks.

Yes, Wesp has a massive EGO, and he will defend it unto death, because he cant handle being told he is in the wrong. I give credit where it is due, and he has talent, but his EGO, and willingness to please stands in the way of being good at what he does.

[Tessera]

Tessera, or anyone, for that matter,

Has Wesp every explained his reasoning for changing things in the game?

I hate to sound spiteful, but it's for the same reason that I've mentioned quite a few times in the past. Wesp is primarily surrounded by immature teenagers, and those teenagers have tossed hundreds of stupid ideas at Wesp over the past several years. And for some insecure reason that only Wesp understands, he often tries to fulfill their requests... usually to the detriment of the game, and to the detriment of every single user of his "patch." I am sure that those youngsters have good intentions, but the fact remains that neither they nor Wesp are mature and sophisticated enough to know when to stop. Instead, they have collectively imposed their Sesame Street version of Bloodlines onto every single end user of Wesp's work. All the while insisting that the game is somehow "better" that way. Sadly, it is not... it is much, much more shallow and silly, as compared to the vanilla version.

In most cases, the changes that Wesp has made seem to be intended to make certain parts of the game easier to play. Moving high-end weapons into earlier acts of the game, for example. Or setting it up so that Venus Dare gives the player more money (and more often). Or making it easier to save money on blood bags. Or adding something that Troika decided to cut from the game, called "Blood Heal," as if any decently skilled player would actually need such a thing. Or allowing the player to get all of their points from Act One and -still- be able to have sex with Jeanette (which actually violates WoD canon, when you carefully analyze that situation in its entirety). Lots of idiotic things of that nature have found their way into Wesp's work over the years.

Other changes made by Wesp seem to be completely senseless, as you have observed. It's almost as if he is saying "Hey look... I can change this! I think I will do just that. Look kiddies... I made it different! It's like a whole new game now!" Wesp's changes which fit into that category are almost always completely pointless, and do not seem to serve any legitimate purpose.

I chalk most of this shit up to Wesp's unfortunate tendency to be an insecure people pleaser. Because no sensible third-party patch author would be as irresponsible as Wesp has been. And as he continues to be.

That's the best answer that I can give you.  

[Farrell McKinsie]

it's a shame, then, that he has lost control of the beast. I Think the game is damned good as is, (with the Patch in place)  and needs little tweaking afterwards.
I am currently played the Mod Tessera offers, and I find it kinda funny, but I think next time, I am going to reload and play the vanilla game. No complaints to Tess's work, but so much nudity and stuff is a little much for my taste.  lol.   and I had the option to NOT use it, so.....

Thanks for offering some explanation, just wish instead of spending time fixing things that are not broken, he (Wesp) would have spent time developing new mods, like a library quest, or something that adds to the game, not detracts or makes it easy.  If I want easy, then I would just use Cheats..

[Tessera]

it's a shame, then, that he has lost control of the beast.

I think that at this point, Wesp has simply painted himself into a corner. If you consider all of the things that we have discussed within this thread, then you should be able to see what I mean by that statement.

I am currently played the Mod Tessera offers, and I find it kinda funny, but I think next time, I am going to reload and play the vanilla game. No complaints to Tess's work, but so much nudity and stuff is a little much for my taste.  lol.   and I had the option to NOT use it, so.....

Precisely right. A mod is a mod, and it must always be OPTIONAL. If the player wants to use a mod such as my own Mega-Mod, then the player should have that option. And if the player decides NOT to use a given mod, whether it be one of mine or anyone else's, then the player should have that option, too. Third-party patches have no business FORCING a mod, or a set of mods in Wesp's case, upon every single end-user. That has always been my position, during this entire so-called "patch war." And it will continue to be my position in the future. No one has the right to force Bloodlines players to accept a bunch of modifications that they do not need, and may not want.

[Izule2003]

Hey Schu, just wanted to say thanks for your information on UP, just recently picked up VTMB on a steam sale and finally got around to downloading it was looking for a quality mod/patch to use, my search first took me to UP but thanks to your information I am currently downloading TPG and cant wait to get it up and running.

[Farrell McKinsie]

Izule2003, as a more or less 'neutral' party in this, I think you are doing the smart thing. Play the game as it was intended, then try the mods, if you wish. Tess's mods don't really change the game, just adds eye candy, but doesn't really change how the game is played. UP makes some serious changes, and illogical ones at that. It's not just spite, that his "Patch/MOD" is not liked on this board much. It's how it changes a game, that needs little "Fixing" to be an excellent game. As designed, it plays well, with a huge about of replay potential.  Just my Humble opionion!

[Izule2003]

Yeah I would like to have my first play through to be as close to original as possible but with out bugs, and from what I have now read I agree with you, sounds like the UP changes a lot of stuff and that's not what I am really looking for at the moment.

[Schu]

Izule, your welcome, and glad I could be of help, hope you enjoy the game.  Just don't let Wesp (and his very vocal supporters) try and fool ya. They will try and tell you that the basic version is just bug fixes only, when its not. 

Those who are new to Bloodlines generally don't know any better, because they don't want to play the original un-patched game, due to all the bugs.  Then they don't do enough research (if any research), then they load the UP on to the game and ruin the experience of what I consider to be a classic RPG.  Now, don't get me wrong...I like the idea of adding mods to games, they can actually add to the longevity of a game, and keep people playing for years, but they should never be forced.

[Tessera]

Now, don't get me wrong...I like the idea of adding mods to games...

...but they should never be forced.

Exactly the point. And exactly why anything produced by Wesp is an insult to VTMB players everywhere.
Ramming unwanted changes down people's throats is dictatorial, unethical and immoral. Wesp = guilty.

Far from being any sort of "savior" of Bloodlines, Wesp is in fact the person who has done more to sabotage
and undermine this game than anyone else in the world. Literally... he has fucked up VTMB more than anyone
else in this entire world. And for that, he should be despised. Just my opinion of course, but I'm sticking to it.

[Ratcatcher]

Literally... he has fucked up VTMB more than anyone...

Hence its no real surprise why he's still trying to fix stuff that he broke in the first place.

[Prisoner416]

It would be really sweet if someone could track down ANYONE from the original dev team and have them comment on Wesp's "work".

[Majorshepard]

Hello guys

I just created this account a few moments ago to come in and see what the True Patch was all about. I did not expect to find that it is an old patch that has been going on for about 5 years and that it has been relatively hidden amongst all the others mods/patches for Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. I also did not expect to see that a literal war had occurred between this mod and the creator, and fan base, of the Unofficial patch a long time ago. Searching through all the forums and sites that talk about patching and modding Bloodlines I did not find even one mention of this patch until earlier today. I found this little forum post about UP...and I was quite...disturbed by what I learned from it.

See I've been using UP since v7.9, or a bit later, and was generally ignorant in what it did to the game and what changes it made. I had a vague sense on what it did by the patch notes and was quite trusting that what Wesp5 was telling was true and fixed problems in the game. I even had a small talk with him with an error I had with 7.9 of his mod that made Larry disappear and he was relatively pleasant. I used that "patch" all the way up to its latest iteration until I started to notice some...issues with it. Bugs in the game that had been there since 7.9 of the patch, and the Larry bug still causing an issue. One issue I had with a change added was a weird ending choice where you could get a dancing werewolf in LaCroix's office as the credits rolled by and a new song played. However the thing would keep going even after the song ended and the credits were done, so it got awkward very quickly. Other things were kid of minor at the time, such as only one person selling blood packs and weird placements of weapons. So I decided to try and find different mods/patches that made the game even better. I then found this little nugget and decided to read what the post was about.

At first I thought it was the typical internet B.S where die hard fans were talking about how crap one mod was against another, and generally blowing smoke up their butts about their patch/mod. However the more I read the more I thought about it. Checking through the list that started this thread I could see what Schu was saying, all these unnecessary changes and adds. They way Wesp5 worded his notes to make it sound like things he patched were problems already in the game, but were actually caused by him. It was an eye opener to say the least. After a while I just felt...angry that I was lied to. Sad that he actually did this kind of thing. And disgusted that I had actually fell for it and enjoyed his changes. AND the fact that he stole most of what was in it? I actually had to sit for awhile and think back to all the times I saw Wesp5 talk to people and realised he did seem to pander to everyone he talked to, saying that he would fix problems or add things in. I don't think he even said 'No' even once. And now that I'm here typing up this message...I still feel betrayed (that may be too strong though). I had to uninstall Bloodlines just to get back the original game again and play it to see what was done to it...I even made a freaking playthrough on my youtube channel! FFS! I USED this mod in my VIDEOS! GODDAMMIT! I actively endorsed the mod! I endorsed this Piece of SH**! I told people that it was a "good" mod that added new "Features" to the game. And now I know this I know I was telling them BULLS**T! It isn't a good mod at all! All those errors in the game were caused by his mod!

And you know what...I'm not even that angry at Wesp5. I more angry at myself. For falling for it. For Actively endorsing the mod...I knew I should've looked more into it. I try to think that nice people = good content and most of the time it works, certain examples it doesn't work is with people like EA and Capcom. But I guess karma had to rear it head. :sigh: Needless to say I'm not going to use his mod anymore. I'm NEVER going to use his mod ever again. You showed me the truth and it freaking burned...but it had to be seen.

I have to say "I apologise. I am sorry that I had used someones mod that affected the game in such a way that it Literally ATE the soul of the game. It ripped apart the effort, time and sweat poured into it by Troika and force fed it to the fans and made THEM sh** all over it. I am sorry that I did not see it sooner. And I am sorry that I...Liked my ignorance at the time"

...What a great way to introduce myself. Sorry for the big wall of text.

[Tessera]

The way Wesp5 worded his notes to make it sound like things he patched were problems already in the game, but were actually caused by him. It was an eye opener to say the least.

And you've experienced it first-hand, too. That weird disappearing Larry bug that you mentioned. There is no such bug in the original game. It's yet another example of Wesp's ineptitude.

And you can bet that in the next release of his "patch," Wesp either didn't mention it at all, or else he added something to the effect of "Fixed a bug that was causing Larry to disappear." Never once openly admitting that HE was the one who broke Larry in the first place.

We have never lied about the True Patch. We have never lied about Wesp, either. If you want to read lies, then they're easy to find. Just head over to PlanetVampire or the Steam boards. The bullshit is piled sky-high over there. Always has been.

Sorry for the big wall of text.

Don't be -- I found it interesting. And welcome aboard.   

[Ratcatcher]

Nice first post. 
The nice thing is that, lately, it seems that a few people are learning things the hard way and then finding their way here.
And don't be too hard on yourself about being deceived by wesp and co's propaganda bullshit, they've been at it so long that even "game journalist" have fallen for it.
The only thing you can really do now is educate people about what you've learned.

Oh, and welcome aboard.

[Majorshepard]

Thanks Thoguht I'd let you know though that as of this earlier today I have added an edit to my video that had a link to the UP in the description. I have publicly retracted my statement and endorsemont of it and told others to look for other means of patching the game. I hope people will see it . I would post a link to it but I don;t think that is allowed here, plus the video has bad audio in it

[Pho]

I just came here AND registered cause I saw a nice video on youtube with an edited description and a link to this forum.

So:
Thank you MajorShepard for your update and bring me to this community and this true patch.

[Majorshepard]

I just got email by Wesp5 about my post. He does read these then