Wesp should be banned from Steam for lieing

[Schu]

And UltimaVlrz should be banned for being a Wesp supporter.

Here are a few interesting things about the UP that are popping up on Steam. I removed the names for privacy reasons, even though I got it off a pubic forum. Tessera if you feel this is inappropriate then go a head and delete it. I just needed to vent, because of Wesp's lie and my post being deleted. The underlined comment below is the lie.

Originally Posted by:
Should I put the patch down as a plus patch or basic?

Wesp5:
That's up to you. If you want to see the game in the unfinished state it was released in or intend to replay it with another clan anyway, go with basic. If you want to see more restored content right from the start go with plus...

IR_Wildman (me):
What Wesp just said is inaccurate. If you want to play VtMB the way Troika released it....bug free, then download the True Patch Gold Edition (TPG). If you want to play a buggy, modded game with over powered characters, then load up the Unofficial Patch, but dont let Wesp fool you. Wesp has made many changes to both his basic version as well as the plus version of the UP. Too clarify: VtMB is buggy in its original state (un-patched), but it should not need 70+ (and counting) patches to fix it. Also, what Wesp calls "restored content" is actually buggy, broken content that was left on the disk's that he and others found, tried to fix, then put into the UP.

The reason I am posting this as a copy/paste, is my post was deleted almost immediately for flame baiting. But here is the link anyway:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1888919

As you can tell, Wesp is even trying to bait me (off topic) into telling him how Acrimonious and Tessera fixed the bar to access the door to Ming (which ain't gonna happen, even if I could). I have been trying to play nice as far as Wesp was concerned (which isn't easy), but this kind of shit just pisses me off. Wesp and his crony's can say what they want, including out right lie's, but when a dissenting voice calls them out, you get shut-down and warned before anyone can comment on your post, let alone see it.
_____________________________________________________________________________

Can't get to Bertram Tung? :\
Request:
So I'm playing VTMB for the first time and I just finished the part where you watch Therese/Jeanette kill the other and call off the feud.

However when I go to the gas station after this both gates are still shut and locked. Is this a bug, or am I going to the wrong place? I have a patch installed, so idk. :c

Answer:
Just did this yesterday, when you go up to one gate if you look on the ground on the right side a couple feet away from the gate the padlock to unlock it is lying on the ground, thought it was an odd glitch. It'll glow when you look directly at it.

Question:
I tried looking where you described but I didn't see any padlock. :\ would it be possible for you to take a screenshot?

Wesp5:
The padlock is only there if you use the Unofficial Patch. If you don't use that you have a different problem and I'll recommend noclip.

This is a bug that Wesp created, by adding that stupid pad-lock. I tried running his script in IDLE and got a syntax error. I have not seen this bug in vanilla or the TP.
_________________________________________________________________________________

"Flapping" container doors
Request:
Forgive me if this has been covered somewhere else. I've only been playing for a few days, but this problem has happened quite a bit. I try to open a container (chest, dresser, my fridge, etc.) and the door flaps open and shuts immediately (really fast). I would say that it happens about 1/4 of the time. I try different angles of approach and distance, but to no avail. I've also tried holding the use button...nope. I'm running the 7.2 patch. Anyone else run into this?
What can be done?

Wesp5:
That is a stupid random glitch that I don't know how to fix. An easy solution to get the items nevertheless is selecting them with the right mouse button

This is not a stupid random glitch, it is a bug from the original game that was partially fixed in the Official 1.2 patch, and then finally fixed in the TP. Also "right mouse button"? now I know he is insane.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Bertram Tung & noclip
Request from the same guy earlyer:
So the gate to Sunco gasoline is locked still. Can't get through. Tried the thing where you put "-console" in the launch window. Now I get a console box, but when I type "noclip" (or anything for that matter) and hit "submit", I get a mouse cursor on the screen, and no interaction whatsoever with the game. Can't even hit the escape key. Ctr Alt Del is the only way out.
Help!
Running 7.2 basic patch.

Wesp5:
That's a random bug. You should still be able to open the console. Type "chareditor" there and continue...

Yeah Wesp, one you created, lol, he even broke the console. I could be wrong here, but I have not had a problem with the console.

[perez007usa]

I wonder who's kissing who's ass. "Did I say that out loud" 

[Tessera]

And UltimaVlrz should be banned for being a Wesp supporter.

We've known that about him for years. That's the dickless little puke who banned me from Steam and censored all of my posts. In fact, he tends to censor almost ALL posts which support the True Patch.

Fuck 'em, who cares..? My response to Steam has been to teach thousands of people (via posts up the public section of this board) how to pirate Steam games. Big selling titles, too... like Half-Life 2, Dragon Age and Fallout 3. And I will continue to do so. In fact, I have plans to post a detailed, step-by-step set of instructions on exactly where to safely get pirated copies of those games, and exactly how to eliminate Steam altogether from your computer (not just "offline mode," but actually physically remove the entire Steam service). And then, how to get those games to run perfectly without it. Totally, absolutely free of cost... and absolutely free of Steam.

Steam banned me for illegitimate reasons and refuses to support the superior TPG patch. Therefore I am retaliating, by showing people how to shove a big, fat dick right up Steam's ass. Seems fair to me.

So they lose a lot of money... and as for me, I lose...

Hmmm, what do I lose..?

Let me think...

...

Nothing. I lose nothing at all. Absolutely nothing whatsoever.

I guess we win. Power to the people, baby.

[anariel]

The console problem you mention happens to me too, every time I open the console. The mouse refuses to go back to work as mouses do while in a shooter. Opening the diary using a console command solves it. And the problem was there with both the untouched 1.2 version of the game, and the True Patch Gold, so most likely it's something related to the computer rather than to the game (USB mouse, motherboard architecture, Windows...).

[Tessera]

It's a glitch in the engine itself. The fix is: never close the console using the mouse.
Always close it using the same hotkey that opens it (usually the tilde "~" key).

Do it that way, and you should never have any such problems. If you are still having
problems anyway, then your hardware sucks. So go buy better hardware.  

Anyway, let's try to stay on topic.

[Schu]

It's a glitch in the engine itself. The fix is: never close the console using the mouse.
Always close it using the same hotkey that opens it (usually the tilde "~" key).

Yeah a lot of game consoles have that problem, but that guy didn't say whether or not if he closed the console using the mouse, just that the console was locking up when he entered a command then hit submit.

Anyway. I have been hanging out in the Steam forums trying to be a dissenting voice against the UP (without picking a fight...lately). Unfortunately, what ends up happening, is my posts get taken out of context (because they dont know how to use a dictionary), ignored because of the UP supporters who just out post you and pass on the laurels to Wesp for doing such a great job (yeah right, I've been through the UP files and I know better, can you spell command-line error? or syntax error? I even found a collision error, whatever that means), or it just ain't worth it anymore. So I think I'm done with the Steam forums, I may stop in from time to time to help someone out, but I'm done with the frustration.

As far as the lieing gos, that's fine we all do it, it's a part of our nature, but Wesp's lies aren't just affecting him and those close to him, their affecting the community at large. That just ain't right in my book.

[Tessera]

Here's the way I look at it, Schu...

In this world, there are intelligent free-thinkers. Sadly, they make up the minority of the human population.

Also in this world, there are conformists. I often call them "cud-chewing sheeple." Sadly, they make up the majority of the human population.

No matter where you go and no matter what you do, you will always find yourself outnumbered by stupid, irrational conformists. These are the people who believe that the majority is always right -- despite the fact that historically speaking, the majority has almost ALWAYS been wrong. But they don't care... because to those people, it is much more important to "belong" than it is to be "right." It's almost as if they are saying "We don't care if we're wrong -- just so long as we're all wrong TOGETHER." So when given a choice between thinking for themselves and doing what is best, or simply "going along to get along," the great masses of the sheeple will almost always opt to join in with whatever they perceive to be the status quo. They remind me of herd animals, to tell you the truth.

The larger Bloodlines community is no different than the larger world community, in this respect. The VTMB community, like any other community in this world, is dominated by clueless, cud chewing sheeple... for whom it is more important to do what everybody else is doing, as opposed to doing what is actually best for them. So it should come as no surprise that those nitwits have largely jumped aboard Wesp's bus. Just as it is no surprise that like anyone suffering from mindless mob mentality, they tend to circle the wagons and become abusive, whenever any mention of the True Patch comes along. They are habitual conformists... and by definition, most conformists are psychologically insecure individuals. Hence their behavior. Well to hell with them, because I didn't create the True Patch for the unsophisticated, mindless sheeple out there. I am in fact so disgusted by people like them that I DON'T WANT them to use our patch. They simply do not deserve it.

But within the larger VTMB community, there is also a select sub-group of intelligent, free-thinking purists. We could care less about "going along to get along," thus our perceptions are not being clouded by "group-think." We simply want to play VTMB without bugs... and without having a bunch of arbitrary changes imposed upon us by someone else. Those are the people who tend to prefer using the True Patch Gold Edition... and I am proud to have been able to serve their needs.

[Schu]

Tessera, thank you and I agree.

I would say that the only difference between you and me in this matter....is you call them "sheeple" and I call them conformists (which means the same damn thing basically), but these conformist idiots remind me of religious zealots (they just dont quit or go away). I just wish the "sheeple" would open their god-damn eyes and ears. If they did, Wesp would be nothing but a bad memory and good riddance. I will be the first to admit that Wesp is an okay modder and that he has some damn good ideas, but they dont belong in a patch and above all else...his lies are pissing me off. The bad thing about that is....I'm not even involved in this patch ordeal. I'm only an amateur modder who is trying to figure out how Python works in his favorite game and you have offered to help "anyone" who asks. And Wesp.....just keeps everything to himself. Talk about a control freak...he just wants to keep the information all to himself, without helping anyone except for his tight little group.

Example: I have been trying to figure out how Rodinhood70 got the Confession cage dancers to work in the UP (without the game crashing), for a mod that would work with the TPG (like I have always said it's a nice touch), well...I'm kind of stuck and I haven't contacted him directly (yet). Well guess what.....my ole lady has got no responses from anyone, on her PV account.

[Tessera]

Wesp is an okay modder and that he has some damn good ideas, but they dont belong in a patch and above all else...his lies are pissing me off.

Wesp is German. He lives in Germany. And if we have learned anything from German history, it is that they seem to believe that if you keep repeating a lie over and over again, then eventually that lie will become magically transformed into the truth.

Wasn't it Adolph Hitler... another German... who famously said "The great masses of the people will more readily believe in a big lie, than in a small one." Or some words to that effect. That vile attitude seems to have persisted within their culture, at least amongst some Germans. Just look at how many Germans continue to lie about the Holocaust, for example... which they themselves committed upon millions and millions of innocent victims. To this day, many of them still try to pretend that the Holocaust never existed, or at least they pretend that the stories about it are largely exaggerated.

That's the world that Wesp grew up in... so it should come as no surprise that repeatedly lying is almost second nature to him. He'd make his Nazi grandpa real proud.  



Hey... I like that picture. I think I'll add it to my next VTMB Mega-Mod update. Maybe I'll use it for one of the wanted posters in Kilpatrick's office.  :laugh:

[g2d1]

I am a Johnny come lately to the VTMB game and to the Wesp dude's modding style or lack there of.  I am also guilty of installing his "The Final Nights" mod of VMTB, which I promptly un-installed it, because I just could not play the game with those weird classes.  I guess if the idea of the game was just to cake-walk through it, then why even bother.  If this guy is not willing to let the modder community comment on his work, then maybe that's the reason he is using Steam as part of his modus operandi.  So, it would appear that it all comes down to preference.  Some people would rather have 10 lbs. of bologna instead of having 16 oz. of prime rib. 

G2d1

[Arglaar]

Hey... I like that picture. I think I'll add it to my next VTMB Mega-Mod update. Maybe I'll use it for one of the wanted posters in Kilpatrick's office.  :laugh:

I'd say Mirror the inlaid face so that it matches the tilt of the head a little better.

[Tessera]

It was a rush job. I slapped that together in about 5 minutes. :laugh:

I have been trying to figure out how Rodinhood70 got the Confession cage dancers to work in the UP (without the game crashing), for a mod that would work with the TPG

Is that all..? I've known how to set that up for about three years or so. A part of the problem has to do with the fact that there isn't any collision assigned to the bottoms of those cages. So if you simply jam a dancer model up there, she will fall right through the cage and end up down on the dance floor. And if the cages swing, then it could also cause a crash to happen. There's a few other tweaks that need to be done if you want to make it work... but in essence, it's really no big deal.

I didn't add those things to the TPG because they don't belong in the default game. Troika decided to cut them out... so the TPG likewise left them cut out of the game. Also, they kinda look shitty when you actually get them working (the dancers' arms clip through the bars of the cage when they dance and it really just looks awkward to me). So yeah, something like that needs to be reserved for a separate mod.

[Schu]

Is that all..? I've known how to set that up for about three years or so. A part of the problem has to do with the fact that there isn't any collision assigned to the bottoms of those cages. So if you simply jam a dancer model up there, she will fall right through the cage and end up down on the dance floor. And if the cages swing, then it could also cause a crash to happen. There's a few other tweaks that need to be done if you want to make it work... but in essence, it's really no big deal.

I didn't add those things to the TPG because they don't belong in the default game. Troika decided to cut them out... so the TPG likewise left them cut out of the game. Also, they kinda look shitty when you actually get them working (the dancers' arms clip through the bars of the cage when they dance and it really just looks awkward to me). So yeah, something like that needs to be reserved for a separate mod.

Yeah, I know thats why I have just been tinkering with it, to see if I could make it work right. Some of what I was thinking was maybe redoing the textures on the cages (if it's possible) to help get rid of the clipping and maybe putting some cross bars on the bottom of the cages so that it would look like they aren't supposed to move with the dancers in them. Whoops I'm brainstorming out loud again.


Well I was doing some more digging and decided to try and make a point a little more clear, seeing as some may not understand what I have been trying to say, or think I'm full of shit. If you look below, you will see 2 different copy's of  the same script from the 2 different patches. I use these examples because in the OP there is a mention about trying to enter the oil tank to talk to Bertrum Tung and the guy cant get in because there is no padlock. Now the guy later admitted that he was using the UP. Now, I dont expect anyone to be able to read the script, so much as you will see some obvious differences in the two.

If you look at the one used in the TP (which is the original script) you'll see that it is short, simple, works and is easy to understand. Now look at the one for the UP, you will see that it has become too long and overcomplicated. From this piece of script you can also see that wesp added cop cars to the Santa Monica map, which means he has to get rid of them before you can get threw the gate (why in the hell would he add the cop cars?). He added a padlock to the script, which makes it unduly difficult to get threw the gate if you dont know it's there. He even added script for Bertrums computer which doesn't belong there. All of this is in the basic version of the UP, so you make up your own mind, who is the lier.

True Patch version:

#SANTAMONICA: used to determine if Bertram is in the oil tank or not
def bertramOutOfHiding():
   npc = Find("Bertram")
   gate = Find("gasstationgate")
   if(G.Tourette_Wins == 1 or G.Therese_Dead == 1 or G.Jeanette_Dead == 1):
       if(npc):
           npc.ScriptUnhide()
       gate.Unlock()
       knox = Find("Knox")
       if(knox):
           if(G.Knox_Quest < 4 or G.Knox_Quest > 6):
               knox.ScriptHide()
           else:
               knox.ScriptUnhide()
   elif(1):
       npc.ScriptHide()


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unofficial Patch version:

#SANTAMONICA: used to determine if Bertram is in the oil tank or not, changed by wesp
def bertramOutOfHiding():
   if(G.Story_State >= 10 and not G.SM_Gone):
       G.SM_Gone = 1
       copcars = __main__.FindEntitiesByName("copcar")
       for copcar in copcars:
           copcar.Kill()
   npc = Find("Bertram")
   if(G.Tourette_Wins == 1 or G.Therese_Dead == 1 or G.Jeanette_Dead == 1):
       gate = Find("gasstationgate")
       pad = Find("padlock")
       if npc:
           pcon = Find("bertrams_computer_on")
           pcoff = Find("bertrams_computer_off")
           npc.ScriptUnhide()
           pcon.ScriptHide()
           pcoff.ScriptUnhide()
       gate.Unlock()
       if pad: pad.Unlock()
       knox = Find("Knox")
       if knox:
           if(G.Knox_Quest < 4 or G.Knox_Quest > 6):
               knox.ScriptHide()
           else:
               knox.ScriptUnhide()
   else:
       npc.ScriptHide()

As you can see the script for the UP is almost twice as long and unduly complicated, with additions that he claims aren't even there. The UP script came from his 7.4 version.

[Tessera]

For the record...

Cop cars are NEVER supposed to show up in the main hubs, except in two different situations:

(1) You have gone on a rampage inside one of the buildings. You've killed several mortals. In that situation, the script will trigger a sequence in which, from inside the building, you'll hear cops outside yelling at you to come out with your hands up. And when you do actually exit the building, you will see a couple of patrol cars, accompanied by quite a few cops... all of whom will start shooting at you.

(2) The only other time that you should see cop cars in the streets is in the late game, just outside the Venture Tower building in Downtown. It's right after the Sabbat attack upon the tower (which we never actually see) and right before the Prince sends you to the Hallowbrook Hotel, to wipe out the remaining Sabbat (along with Andre).


That's it... those are the only times that the police patrol car models should show up on the main hub maps. If Wesp has added more of them for some reason, then that's fine... FOR A MOD. It does not belong in a patch, period.

[Schu]

He he whoops, thanks for making my post much more clear Tessera, I forgot to mention that very important fact. I guess I was to busy ragin on Wesp's shity scripting and forgot.

Okay I'm going to turn this into something of a game. Lets call it the catch a syntax error. You dont need to know how to read Python but it would help, all you need is a good set of eyes. So here we go, can you find the difference in these two sets of script, from an earlier post. The bottom of this post will have the answer.

TPG
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
knox = Find("Knox")
        if(knox):
            if(G.Knox_Quest < 4 or G.Knox_Quest > 6):
                knox.ScriptHide()
            else:
                knox.ScriptUnhide()
    elif(1):
        npc.ScriptHide()
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UP
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

knox = Find("Knox")
        if knox:
            if(G.Knox_Quest < 4 or G.Knox_Quest > 6):
                knox.ScriptHide()
            else:
                knox.ScriptUnhide()
    else:
        npc.ScriptHide()

Yup Wesp used "else:", instead of "elif(1):". This mistake can cause a conflict with the callout directly above it. Now I'm not sure what version of Python Wesp is using, but it looks like he is using 2.7 maybe 3.0, where Bloodlines uses a much older version. I'm using version 2.2 (which was finalized in May 2003) and I still have to make some changes. I think Bloodlines was made using a version prier to 2.0, and that is going by what is in the lib files.

[Tessera]

But what about hierarchies..?

I distinctly remember Acrimonious telling me that in Python scripts, the degree of indentation for each
line can denote its hierarchy in the "flow" of the script. So wouldn't that have some bearing upon priorities
and potential conflicts, too..?

[Schu]

I haven't gotten that deep in to my books yet, but from what I have read, Yes you are correct. I just got the 1st edition of "Python Programming on Win32" and it talks a lot about hierarchical recordsets. Anyway what Wesp is doing is a big no,no, when calling out a "control structure" or a "function" you can use multiple "elif" (also known as else if) but you must be careful when using multiple "else" commands. Now, that on top of what you are saying about hierarchies and he is making some big mistakes, not just little ones, and its no wonder why people are having issues with his mod.

Damn it all....now I'm starting to sound like I know what I'm talking about and I'm still new at this  I think maybe I need to put the books down for awhile  :laugh:

[Tessera]

I think maybe I need to put the books down for awhile  :laugh:

No actually, I think that you need to hit those books harder.

You do seem to be getting into Python and I for one am hoping that you
can eventually master it. I am already impressed by the progress that you
have been making, so I hope that you won't start slacking off.  

Although if you're getting burnt out, then yeah... take a break. I'll be releasing
my next Mega-Mod update very soon... so perhaps you can have some fun
with that for awhile.

****************

And now, I would like to say something else about Wesp. I mean, aside from
the fact that Wesp is an immature Nazi douchebag. It's about his idiotic addition
of more police cars to the game world...

This is another example of Wesp's total disregard for lore and immersion.
By adding more police cars... simply because "they look cool," Wesp has also
added the sense of a larger police presence to those areas of the game.

Think about the Bloodlines game world, for a moment. We're vampires, yes..?
And because of our very nature, we would tend to remain in areas where we
are more or less "off the radar," so as to avoid attracting any undue attention
to ourselves. Okay, so then if that is the case (and it is), then what parts of
the city would we tend to hang around in..? Would we waltz up and down
Hollywood Blvd., during the height of the tourist season..? Would we spend a
lot of time in brightly lit, high-traffic areas..? Would we stand around outside
of the county court house, waving at all of the cops and lawyers who shuffle
past us..?

No, of course not. We would stay in areas that are generally run down and
relatively free of any strong police presence.

Our character would NEVER hang around in the parts of town where the cops
routinely cruise about in their police cars. Never, ever, ever. We would most
definitely shun those areas whenever possible, and stick to the parts of town
where there's maybe one or two patrol cops, but otherwise hardly any police
presence at all. And obviously, that is exactly the way Troika set things up,
when they constructed all of the main hub maps.

But then, along comes Wesp and he decides to jam a few extra cop cars here
and there in the game world... thus completely controverting everything that I
just finished pointing out. He has ruined the credibility of the game, once again.

WTG, Werner. You really are a fucking clueless nitwit sometimes.  

Actually, make that "most of the time." He's been wantonly fucking up VTMB
in such ways for the past five years. Does Wesp even PLAY this game..? Ever..?

Because in one of the many fights that I've had with Wesp in the past, I remember
quizzing him about basic WoD lore. Nothing too deep, just the basics. And it quickly
became clear that -- at least at that time -- Wesp knew next to nothing about the
vital lore which VTMB is based upon.

Everything is nuts and bolts to this numbskull. Wesp is like some half-assed German
engineer... who knows all about how to make a stronger bed, but since he never
actually sleeps in it, he knows almost nothing about how to make it be more comfortable.
Concepts like nuance, atmosphere and immersion seem to be completely foreign to Wesp.
And it shows, in just about every single unnecessary change that he has imposed upon
the hapless users of his "unofficial patch."