Some Friendly Advice To Bloodlines Modders

[Cylnar]

I would recommend not getting too ambitious, to start. Tessera has been patching and modding VTMB since it came out and he has learned a lot...but it took him a long time to learn it (not that he was doing it full time or anything but still). It really depends on the skill set you have or can develop. Tessera is mostly a texture modder, though he did learn about various game files and how to edit maps during the years of tinkering with VTMB.

Most of what we've discussed on this forum, in various threads, have been things like fleshing out Chinatown a bit, since it was so rushed by Troika, due to ActiVision's "oversight" of the project (it sat around for six months that could have been used productively, so ActiVision's contracts with Valve and Wal-Mart could be served). But making new quests is not an undertaking for the newbie at Bloodlines modding. Maybe you could try your hand at map editing, to start.

In the Mega-Mod, which is now unavailable to the public, Tessera did extensive map edits, to provide more realistic behaviors to world NPCs, so they would actually move around a bit as opposed to standing in one place. Perhaps you could start looking at doing a bit of that. He also updated the Downtown haven, and added a couple of extra blood dolls to it (with dancing behaviors), though he didn't get around to doing the same for the Tremere and Nossie havens (or Santa Monica).

Schu and I had done some work on writing new Histories for the game (originally separately but we joined our efforts). Schu eventually finished after I left the project when a combination of technical limitations and my own shortsightedness cost me a bunch of work. I have been flirting with doing a second project along those lines, recently. Schu also released a mod adding a new Caitiff "Clan" (Oni) to the game. Histories are relatively easy to mod, new clans probably less so.

Does Bloodlines have Italian localization of subtitles and the like? If not, maybe you could start translating those lines into your language. That would help you learn about how those dialog files work in the game with the side benefit of opening the game to an audience who perhaps had avoided the game thus far. That would likely be an ongoing project; as your English improved you would realize better ways to get the meaning across more fully, and update the mod from time to time.

Those are just a few possibilities. Start small and work your way up. This game is NOT modder-friendly like the TES games and such. I don't mean to discourage you, just to instill a sense of realism.

[Tessera]

I do -not- recommend that aspiring modders start off by trying to tackle the Bloodlines maps. The editable metadata within those map files can be a lot more complex than it first appears to be. The syntax is critically important and one must always be fully aware of how certain map functions interact with other map (and script) functions. For example, altering a map trigger over here can totally break a dependency over there. Map editing for Source games is, in my opinion somewhere up there in the "advanced" category of Source modding. I personally made a crapload of very nasty mistakes, back when I was learning how to repair (and customize) Source maps.  

The first step then, for any aspiring modder, is to educate one's self as much as possible before attempting to produce any mods. Simply cobbling together an amateur rush job is not what this game needs. There are already plenty of such mods floating around and without a single exception, all of them suck. So if your goal is to produce mods of QUALITY, then your first priority should be to learn as much as you can about how the Source engine... and the VTMB engine in particular... functions. And since the VTMB engine is not quite the same as other versions of the Source engine, a lot of your education will come down to experimentation and trial-and-error.

And of course, you want to start with a stable and reliable baseline for your mod project. That's what this thread is all about. So naturally, your best choice is to build your mod on top of the True Patch Gold Edition version of Bloodlines, as it is without question the most stable and reliable (and bug-free) version of the game which is currently available.

I have no plans to release any new versions of the True Patch in the future, as no new versions are needed. The current version of the TPG (with Hotfix #7) has pretty much nailed all of the significant bugs in Bloodlines... hence any future releases would, in my considered opinion, be frivolous on my part. This is why the TPG has stayed at its current version for the past couple of years... which is good news for modders, because they can build their mods atop the TPG with confidence. There will be no new versions of the True Patch to screw up your work... so go ahead and knock yourselves out.

[dexter19]

Those are just a few possibilities. Start small and work your way up. This game is NOT modder-friendly like the TES games and such. I don't mean to discourage you, just to instill a sense of realism.

Thanks again xD i am the one that thinks always too big   

It really depends on the skill set you have or can develop.

This is going to be possibly my job so i hope that i have skill or i must develop it real quickly 

In the Mega-Mod, which is now unavailable to the public, Tessera did extensive map edits, to provide more realistic behaviors to world NPCs, so they would actually move around a bit as opposed to standing in one place. Perhaps you could start looking at doing a bit of that. He also updated the Downtown haven, and added a couple of extra blood dolls to it (with dancing behaviors), though he didn't get around to doing the same for the Tremere and Nossie havens (or Santa Monica).

Thanks for the advice 

Does Bloodlines have Italian localization of subtitles and the like? If not, maybe you could start translating those lines into your language.

already done and tested!

I do -not- recommend that aspiring modders start off by trying to tackle the Bloodlines maps. The editable metadata within those map files can be a lot more complex than it first appears to be. The syntax is critically important and one must always be fully aware of how certain map functions interact with other map (and script) functions. For example, altering a map trigger over here can totally break a dependency over there. Map editing for Source games is, in my opinion somewhere up there in the "advanced" category of Source modding. I personally made a crapload of very nasty mistakes, back when I was learning how to repair (and customize) Source maps.

This is not the first time that i work with some Source game, and this is not my first time so i agree with you, now i am watching the metadata, they are really messed up sometimes but i see even worst, but i can have a lot of beta tester so i hope to correct a lot of problem before the release in this forum

The first step then, for any aspiring modder, is to educate one's self as much as possible before attempting to produce any mods. Simply cobbling together an amateur rush job is not what this game needs. There are already plenty of such mods floating around and without a single exception, all of them suck. So if your goal is to produce mods of QUALITY, then your first priority should be to learn as much as you can about how the Source engine... and the VTMB engine in particular... functions. And since the VTMB engine is not quite the same as other versions of the Source engine, a lot of your education will come down to experimentation and trial-and-error.

This is my first time that i mod VTMB but i already know a bit the Source engine, but i start experimentation creating a mod, the only way to make quality mods is to try at least a milion time, you probably know more than me that this is true 

And of course, you want to start with a stable and reliable baseline for your mod project. That's what this thread is all about. So naturally, your best choice is to build your mod on top of the True Patch Gold Edition version of Bloodlines, as it is without question the most stable and reliable (and bug-free) version of the game which is currently available.

This is also the first time that i start my work on an "unofficial patch" because i almost never trust to do it, but i try from myself that is a very QUALITY job, i see a lot of destructive patch on internet (like Brow9 and wesp) but this is quite good , i am ready to explore it 

I have no plans to release any new versions of the True Patch in the future, as no new versions are needed. The current version of the TPG (with Hotfix #7) has pretty much nailed all of the significant bugs in Bloodlines... hence any future releases would, in my considered opinion, be frivolous on my part. This is why the TPG has stayed at its current version for the past couple of years... which is good news for modders, because they can build their mods atop the TPG with confidence. There will be no new versions of the True Patch to screw up your work... so go ahead and knock yourselves out.

thanks, can i ask you what program do you usually use ?




EDIT by Tessera: removed dark blue font, as it was extremely difficult to read. In the future, please do not use such dark colors in your posts, if you expect people to actually read and respond to what you say. Thank you.

[Tessera]

you probably know more than me

Probably.  

thanks, can i ask you what program do you usually use ?

For modding Bloodlines..? Mainly I use Turvy's Tools (included within the TPG package), Notepad (for editing Source map metadata), GIMP 2.4 (my graphics manipulation software of choice), Adobe Photoshop (only for a few things that it does better than GIMP), CrazyBump (for creating high-precision normal maps), 3dsMax 7.0 and Maya (for examining and manipulating models), and an older version of Valve's "Hammer" editor which is no longer available. That's pretty much everything that I need to create VTMB mods.

And so far as my hi-res texture mods are concerned, almost every part of them was created using the GIMP 2.4 software that I mentioned earlier. I'm mentioning it just for those dumbshits out there who believe that freeware must be "second rate" somehow. Not in this case. My work flow under GIMP is much better as compared to Photoshop and the end results are equally good. On the down side, to realy become proficient with GIMP requires going through a rather steep learning curve, as its online help is less than helpful, and its controls are not what I would call "intuitive." But once I got used to it, I can zip along just fine in GIMP. I really do prefer it over commercial software like Photoshop, Paintshop Pro, etc.

[dexter19]

you probably know more than me

Probably.  

its more sure than probably  :laugh:

GIMP 2.4 (my graphics manipulation software of choice)

I used gimp to create the texture of the monsters of amnesia but the moderator of my old mod forum teased me a lot xD
because he used paintshop pro xD i am happy to see that i use most of the same program of a professional 
and not because of me that i haven't a lot of money to spend on commercial software but because he like those software

[Shotgunner]

Probably the best advice I can give with my limited modding knowledge is this: Start small - don't jump into a massive project and realize you are overwhelmed. Don't be afraid to ask for advice and criticism from the community. And most importantly, when asking for criticism, don't expect everyone to give you neutral sounding feedback. You WILL be told, by someone at some point, that your mod sucks big floppy dino dick. Well, maybe not on these forums, as we tend to be mature in such matters(from what I've seen) but the average mod user is a whiny preteen asshole who's balls have yet to drop, and they tend to be quite, ah, vocal when they don't like what they see. But the important thing of this is - do NOT get discouraged. Keep trying. Practice does make perfect.